Posts by Lee Elder

28

Is the end of Watchtowers hated No Blood doctrine in sight?

by nicolaou in

i won't pretend to know things that i don't but just look at the incredible rate of change we've witnessed recently.

it seems that since candace conti and the australian royal commission the watchtower are scrabbling around to shore up their finances in the face of unprecedented legal action against them.. abuse settlement claims are one thing but what happens when children die as a result of your religious teachings?!

you can bet wt legal are arguing for a complete rewrite of policy to protect the organisation from litigation.. do you think their religious privilege will protect them forever?

Lee Elder

A Physician who worked closely with AJWRB proposed another solution in this article:
Journal of Medical Ethics
Ultimately, it is the WTS policy to decide what to do with. Personally, I would have guessed that they would have put further distance between themselves and this monstrous nonsense that was born in the ignorance of C.J. Woodworth, and nurtured by WTS men who knew almost nothing of science and precious little more of Bible scholarship.

It may well be that they continue to believe and hold out hope that either artificial blood or the great tribulation are going to come along and save them from this mess. If so, the policy may be here to stay.

Call me an optimist, but I still think they will eventually realize they have more to gain than lose by simply distancing themselves from this.

28

Is the end of Watchtowers hated No Blood doctrine in sight?

by nicolaou in

i won't pretend to know things that i don't but just look at the incredible rate of change we've witnessed recently.

it seems that since candace conti and the australian royal commission the watchtower are scrabbling around to shore up their finances in the face of unprecedented legal action against them.. abuse settlement claims are one thing but what happens when children die as a result of your religious teachings?!

you can bet wt legal are arguing for a complete rewrite of policy to protect the organisation from litigation.. do you think their religious privilege will protect them forever?

Lee Elder

All they have to do imo is this:

1. Stop taking any action against individuals who accept blood products.

2. Issue a statement that the technology has become so advanced they simply cannot keep up with it. They can continue to say that the Bible tells us to "abstain from blood" and it is incumbent upon the individual to discuss the matter with his doctor and act in good conscience.

3. If they are asked why they no longer DF or DA (perhaps in a Questions From Readers), they repeat item number two above and could also add that the WTS cannot afford to be drawn into legal responsibility for the actions of individual JWs and/or their doctors.

I could probably refine these arguments further, but that is essentially how I believe it would be done. It would take a number of years for the average JW to understand what really happened. Perhaps the majority would miss it completely. They simply quit writing and giving talks about it, the same way they quit all of the silliness on vaccinations.

Would there be some lawsuits? Probably some would try, but I don't think it would be anything like the nightmare they are dealing with on child abuse.

The upside for the WTS? They lose one of the primary criticisms that causes them to be labeled as a dangerous cult. The eliminate future liability. They make it easier to attract converts. They free up all of the resources currently committed to HLC and HIS.

If and when they are sued, they can either say that their policy really hasn't changed. They still teach JW's to abstain from blood. I think it would work and ultimately be a plus for the WTS.

101

My mom passed away yesterday....

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you all for your sincere encouragement during these last few weeks.

finally, she is at peace.

i was with her , holding her hand when she died.

Lee Elder

Sorry to hear this. Glad you were able to be with her.

28

Is the end of Watchtowers hated No Blood doctrine in sight?

by nicolaou in

i won't pretend to know things that i don't but just look at the incredible rate of change we've witnessed recently.

it seems that since candace conti and the australian royal commission the watchtower are scrabbling around to shore up their finances in the face of unprecedented legal action against them.. abuse settlement claims are one thing but what happens when children die as a result of your religious teachings?!

you can bet wt legal are arguing for a complete rewrite of policy to protect the organisation from litigation.. do you think their religious privilege will protect them forever?

Lee Elder

There is certainly precedent for the WT to eliminate the blood doctrine. Note how they accomplished something very similar with respects to vaccination:

Questions From Readers

“Is vaccination a violation of God’s law forbidding the taking of blood into the system? – G. C., North Carolina.

The matter of vaccination is one for the individual that has to face it to decide for himself….our Society cannot afford to be drawn into the affair legally or take the responsibility for the way the case turns out….all objection to vaccination on Scriptural grounds seems to be lacking….We merely offer the above information on request, but can assume no responsibility for the decision and course the reader may take.”
– The Watchtower 12/15/1952 p. 764

It can be safely assumed that JWs who skipped vaccinations for their children suffered the effects of polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. My suspicion is that most JWs continued to feel that vaccinations were a contamination and avoided them whenever possible. That attitude persisted among JWs for decades and I remember it well. We would likely see something similar with blood.

63

AUSTRALIA – Artemis Legal launches inquiry into group and class action lawsuits against Jehovah’s Witnesses

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses - group action lawyers fighting for justice | artemis legal .

artemis legal | watchtower claims.

13 october 2015 .

Lee Elder

Now there is a shocker :-) The Royal Commission has provided them with reams of evidence. Should be fun to sit back and watch the dominoes fall. You shall reap what you sow.

22

The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove

by Lee Elder in

the watchtower and jehovah's witnesses are fond of saying there are no automatic sanctions for taking blood.

that they no longer disfellowship someone who takes blood.

that they have a "free choice" in the matter.

Lee Elder

You are correct. They are one in the same and just a way for them to mislead authorities and courts.

27

How to deal with anxiety?

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

lately my mental health has been rapidly declining.

i have anorexia and deppression, and my anxiety has become overwhelming.

i have been to many doctors/therapists in the past, but because i have not been magically cured my parents dont want to get me any more help.

Lee Elder

Call the suicide help line. They will direct you to the resources that are available in your area. These articles may help you understand something about what you are feeling and why. You will, however, almost certainly need help to cope.

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=6
http://jwsurvey.org/apostates/inducing-phobias-how-the-watchtower-uses-irrational-fears-to-solidify-membership

http://www.freeminds.org/psych/phobias.htm

http://aawa.co/blog/watchtower-mental-illness/

27

How to deal with anxiety?

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

lately my mental health has been rapidly declining.

i have anorexia and deppression, and my anxiety has become overwhelming.

i have been to many doctors/therapists in the past, but because i have not been magically cured my parents dont want to get me any more help.

Lee Elder

Are you currently a JW with JW parents? That would explain a lot. The WT breeds and implants phobias that produce anxiety. Counseling and medication are often necessary. Just as important is having someone to talk to who understands what you are going through. You have taken a step in the right direction here because there are plenty of folks here who get it. However, it sounds like you need professional help and in may be severe enough that it would be more likely to be stabilized in an "inpatient" setting. If you feel "overwhelmed" and like you want to hurt yourself, please just call 911 or the suicide help line at 800-273-8255. Otherwise, talk to a counselor or doctor and get the help and support you need. There is plenty of help out there - don't go it alone, and don't think that prayer is going to fix this. You need help.

22

The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove

by Lee Elder in

the watchtower and jehovah's witnesses are fond of saying there are no automatic sanctions for taking blood.

that they no longer disfellowship someone who takes blood.

that they have a "free choice" in the matter.

Lee Elder

The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses are fond of saying there are no automatic sanctions for taking blood. That they no longer disfellowship someone who takes blood. That they have a "free choice" in the matter. This is equivocation and misdirection. Note how they report JW's who take blood on the same form as those who are disfellowshipped for all other offenses. This is the "iron fist" in the "gloved hand" that enforces Watchtower dictates by punishing dissent for non-compliance with compulsory shunning by even close family members. How can any JW's who requests "no blood transfusion" be sincerely believed since they are being threatened and coerced? What free choice does someone have if you hold a gun to their head?

44

Who Qualifies for TTATT?

by John Aquila in

when i first learn ttatt i started telling every one.

ttatt will not help him, it will destroy him.

all his family are jws.

Lee Elder

@Oliva Wilder - it really depended on the person. In many cases it was the contradictions in the blood policy. In a few others I used the Bible/Strongs/Interlinear and showed them how the Greek word for marking and disfellowshipping are the same word and helped them reason on the significance of that. I also talked about other cults and the techniques they use on their followers.